Legislature(2007 - 2008)BUTROVICH 205
02/27/2008 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB214 | |
| SB246 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | SB 214 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | SB 246 | TELECONFERENCED | |
SB 214-HUNTING BY MEMBERS OF THE MILITARY
3:39:57 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS announced SB 214 to be up for consideration.
JODY SIMPSON, staff to Senator Huggins, sponsor of SB 214,
stated the sponsor statement as follows:
Senate Bill 214 allows non-resident active-duty
military and Coast Guard personnel and their
dependents to qualify for resident-rate, big game
hunting licenses immediately upon report date without
having to meet the current 12-month residency
requirement. SB 214 also provides for free hunting and
sport fishing licenses for active members of the
Alaska National Guard and military reserves.
The vast majority of states have unique licensing
statutes for active-duty military personnel. At least
45 states offer resident license rates, without regard
to actual residency status, to active-duty personnel
or personnel stationed in the state. Eight of those
states, including Alaska, require personnel to be
stationed in state for a specific period of time. At
twelve months, Alaska's waiting period, as provided by
AS 16.05.415(c), is by far the longest among the
states. Because military personnel are transferred
around the world, often without having any real say in
where they are stationed, they are not similarly
situated to others who choose to move to Alaska
voluntarily. The fact that transfers are involuntary
and frequent means that they may be unable to
establish the qualifications for normal residency and
ever be able to take advantage of state resident
preferences. SB 214, if enacted, benefits active-duty
military members and their dependents by waiving the
12-month waiting period.
Current statute, AS 16.05.340 (d), entitles active-
duty non-resident military members stationed in Alaska
to special military licenses at the resident rate for
sport-fishing and small game hunting. This provision
does not extend to big game licenses and tags. If
military members who have not reached residency status
want to go big game hunting, they must now purchase
big game licenses at the non-resident rate plus big
game tags at one-half the non-resident rate. SB 214,
if enacted, would allow them to purchase both big game
licenses and tags at that resident rate.
MS. SIMPSON noted a fiscal impact of $31,000 from the Department
Of Fish and Game. She said the proposed change to the resident
requirements in this bill would not affect eligibility for
Permanent Fund Dividend checks or jury pool.
She said this bill also eliminates the guide requirement for
hunting brown bear, grizzly, mountain goat and sheep. The reason
is that members of the military are trained to rigorous physical
and technical standards that typically exceed those of the
average person and are typically more familiar with challenging
terrain and changing weather patterns. Currently a guide is
required to hunt those four species.
MS. SIMPSON said the Alaska Professional Hunters Association
wrote a letter in opposition to that component of the bill. She
said the January 1, 2009 effective date in the bill allows the
Department of Fish and Game time to revise, print, and
distribute application forms that reflect accurate information
and to work with vendors and applicants to achieve compliance
with the new law and it's their standard practice to start at
the beginning of a calendar year when changing an application.
3:43:01 PM
SENATOR MCGUIRE joined the committee.
3:43:43 PM
MS. SIMPSON said it has been suggested that the aim of SB 214
could be better accomplished by amending the current statutory
definition of "residency" within the fish and game component
specifically; a copy of that language was in their packets.
She said that Representative Bill Thomas requested that the
committee consider including members of the National Guard,
language in his HB 62. He said also if that change is made that
a revised fiscal note would be necessary.
3:45:52 PM
SENATOR STEVENS asked if National Guard members wouldn't already
be included as non-resident members of the military service.
CHAIR HUGGINS helped out saying that the Department of Military
Affairs (DMVA) has asked them to look at provisions for using
hunting and fishing licenses by virtue of membership in a
military service as a recruiting mechanism and he had talked to
General Fraser and the Army commander about doing that. This
weekend's paper said some soldiers were apprehended because they
were buying an in-state license when they weren't entitled to
it. Each of the commanders said they couldn't justify it, but
because, in fact, all the large troop concentration states -
Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, North Carolina and South Carolina
- give resident hunting and fishing privileges to people who
live there, they talked about it and this bill would bring
Alaska in line with other places where soldiers, sailors and
airmen are stationed. South Carolina is the most permissive by
letting North Carolina D831 on-leave personnel hunt there.
He said there are some hurdles because Alaska has three species
- brown bears, goats and Dall sheep - that require a guide to
hunt if you're not a resident. Exempting those species might put
them on weak ground.
3:51:34 PM
SENATOR WAGONER said Georgia and South Carolina don't have
grizzly bear, mountain sheep or goats, but Alaska does and it is
a limited number. He had no problem with making it easier for a
military person who has transferred in on a permanent basis to
go black and brown bear hunting where the ADF&G has found that
there is an overabundance of those bears. But to take a very
valuable resource as far as income that comes in for guided
hunts is not what he wants to do.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked how many military members are
actually exercising their right to go on guided hunts now and
how many would take advantage of this bill if it were to pass.
MS. SIMPSON answered a letter from Alaska Department of Fish and
Game (ADF&G) provided that list from 2006. For example three
licenses were actually sold for brown bear and grizzly bear.
SENATOR STEDMAN asked how many of those were successful hunts.
MS. SIMPSON said she didn't know.
3:55:20 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS said Alaska has lots of provisions for residents
that don't require a guide.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI wanted to know if they had any best
estimates on how many members of the military or their
dependents would take advantage of this law if it were passed.
MS. SIMPSON said she could get him a percentage, not an exact
number.
3:56:41 PM
KEVIN SAXBY, Sr. Assistant Attorney General, Department of Law
(DOL), said his letter addresses constitutional concerns. He
said the state constitution's justification for requiring guides
for non residents is based on dangerous conditions and dangerous
game, but secondly these species with the exception of mountain
goat are unique to Alaska and mountain goat are not found in
very many other places. There are a lot of unique rules about
them that visitors can't know about. Creating exceptions weakens
the defensibility of distinctions the state has already drawn.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked what the standard of review would be
in looking at out of state residents. Is it strict scrutiny or a
rational basis and what would be the standard for upholding this
statute if it was applied to military members?
MS. SAXBY answered the standard of review in federal courts
would be the rational basis test, the lowest standard of review,
but that is still a test that matters.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if the state would have to show the
rationale for having a different standard for military members
as opposed to a different standard for people who aren't
military members.
MR. SAXBY replied yes; practically speaking they would want to
show that there is a reason to view recently-arrived military
members differently from the general run of the mill non
resident on both their ability to face dangerous conditions and
dangerous game and their knowledge of Alaska's very unique
hunting regulations.
4:01:29 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS said he thought they should exclude the three
species that are guided to keep down the profile of a potential
court challenge by eliminating section 2.
MR. SAXBY said eliminating section 2 would remove all of his
constitutional concerns.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if there is a constitutional basis to
challenge the remainder of the bill.
MS. SAXBY replied yes; someone could always come up with an
argument. Even in section 1 residents and non residents are
treated differently. Precisely, they need to recognize that
section 1 does not currently authorize them to receive resident
licenses, but special non resident military licenses that cost
the same as resident licenses. That is an important distinction.
To get more to Senator Wielechowski's question, people are still
getting treated differently, but it's a different debate at this
point. They are not talking about whether non residents in
general are qualified to face dangerous conditions and game and
are aware of Alaska's unique regulations. Instead they are
talking about whether there is any legitimate state reason to
treat military non residents differently from other non
residents. It's a different debate and an easier defense to
make. Military personnel are transferred here against their
will, for example, and for national security.
4:04:56 PM
SENATOR MCGUIRE said she thought it might be better to have a
specific license granted on a public policy basis to honor our
military the same as the state did in making disabled veterans
licenses free as opposed to crafting it in a way that redefines
resident. She was concerned about blurring the line between
residents and non residents as well and setting a precedent so
that other entities would start blurring the legal line.
MR. SAXBY said he still thought the neatest way to do it was to
authorize recently arrived military transferees who are
stationed here to be residents. Military people are here for
different reasons than anyone else is and it's easy to defend
treating them differently in that instance.
SENATOR MCGUIRE suggested focusing on the fact that they are
stationed here for a reason.
MR. SAXBY said he supported treating them differently as
military, but as residents rather than as non residents.
CHAIR HUGGINS thanked him and said his experience in other
states is that for the purposes of hunting and fishing PCS
military and dependents are considered residents - period. He
asked if it was complicated to get people to be able to hunt
black or brown bears in unit 16B.
MR. SAXBY replied yes.
4:09:50 PM
ROBERT FITHIAN, Executive Director, Alaska Professional Hunters
Association, said the association cannot adequately express
their respect and honor for the U.S. military personnel and
their dependents who in times of war and non war dedicate their
lives for America. They are also supportive of the concerns
brought forward in the sponsor statement for this bill. However,
he said, as the bill is written it would provide for special
treatment of non resident military personnel to hunt Alaska's
guide-required big game species. They recognize and agree with
the desire to avoid posing undue burdens on military members and
support acknowledging and honoring them for their service, but
to preserve the constitutionality of Alaska's guide requirement
for non resident hunters, their expert counsel on fish and
wildlife matters, Bill Horn, strongly counseled against
authorizing any exception to the guide requirement for non
resident military and their dependents on active duty and
permanently stationed in Alaska. His letter provided the basis
for his recommendations. Mr. Fithian said the association would
be very willing to work with the sponsor to generate a version
of the bill that would meet their common goals and concerns.
4:12:29 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS agreed with him that the three dangerous species
complicates the matter and said to consider that done mentally
at this time and promised to work with him on language to
correct it.
4:12:52 PM
RIC DAVIDGE, State Council President, Viet Nam Veterans of
America, Chairman, Alaskan Veterans Foundation and Acting
Chairman of JET PAC in Alaska said military members in Georgia
and the Carolinas show their military I.D. and are treated as a
resident. However, he admitted that Alaska has differences
particularly with the big game species.
MR. DAVIDGE suggested making it clear that the active duty
military service includes members of the U.S. Coast Guard and
their dependents. He also observed that the harvest of big game
is regulated by the Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G)
and that should take care of the harvesting question and people
with guides are probably much more successful in harvesting them
than people who don't have them. He encouraged having further
hearings on this bill.
4:15:00 PM
KRISTIN WRIGHT, Finance and Licensing Supervisor, Alaska
Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G), said she said the
department supports the bill and she was available to answer
questions.
SENATOR MCGUIRE noted that the fiscal note indicates the ADF&G
received $52,100 in 2006 from sport license and big game tag
sales from military personnel and if all military personnel
could purchase them at resident rates, the department would lose
$31,900. So if this policy goes forward, that would have to be
considered in their budgeting process.
MS. WRIGHT added that the department would also lose a 25
percent matching requirement amounting to another $8,000.
SENATOR MCGUIRE asked her to explain the match.
MS. WRIGHT answered that when the department gets federal grants
it has to use matching funds of usually 25 percent. They usually
use ADF&G funds and they would lose the ability to use those
funds.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if she expected the number of
military licenses to increase if this bill passes.
MS. WRIGHT replied yes, because the licenses are too expensive
for some people to purchase now. She also mentioned that she is
somewhat concerned that military members who under this measure
would buy a military license at a resident rate would confuse
license vendors. Right now when you go to a vender and buy a
resident license, you fill out a box on how many months and
years you have been in Alaska. But if a person puts one month in
that box, the vendor wouldn't think he was a resident. There are
1,600 vendors throughout the state including Wal-Mart and Fred
Meyers and it would be hard to educate them all on the
distinction. If military members buy licenses at the resident
rate, vendors will not question why they have not been here for
12 months.
4:19:40 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said military members would having to live
in the state for 12 months before being able to undertake
subsistence fishing, for instance, or registration hunts would
get into a whole other protection issue of treating them better
than actual residents.
MS. WRIGHT replied that she wasn't familiar with all the state's
hunting requirements and she didn't know about registration
hunts.
MR. SAXBY responded that all the requirements for registration
hunts are driven by whether one is defined as a resident or a
non resident. If the definition of resident is changed to add
military personnel who are permanently stationed here, they will
qualify under all the rules that apply to residents.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if certain hunts require being a
resident for 12 months to do the hunt or get a resident rate.
MR. SAXBY replied no; the 12-month requirement is to be a
resident in the first place. After that there are no additional
requirements. Many hunts require being a resident to
participate, all subsistence hunts, for example.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if they get in legal problems with
giving a resident license to a member of the military who has
not been here for 12 months.
MR. SAXBY replied yes, but you can draw legitimate distinctions
at that level. Military people are stationed here because they
are ordered here. Other peoples' jobs require them to come here,
too, but they can quit that job and leave any time; military
personnel can't and face severe penalties if they do. The
coercive level of them being here is greater than for any other
type of recent arrival. Second, there's a national security
reason for them being here and the state could recognize that if
it wanted to.
4:24:26 PM
SENATOR WAGONER said the state currently grants resident fishing
licenses to people from the Yukon Territory and he asked if this
means the state would grant the military member a resident
fishing license as well as a hunting license.
MS. WRIGHT replied that Yukon residents can purchase a Yukon
license at the resident rate; they don't purchase a resident
license. And yes, this would also be for fishing licenses.
SENATOR WAGONER stated that this number of personnel, then,
would be immediately eligible for dip net fisheries throughout
the state of Alaska, because people need a resident fishing
license to be eligible for a dip net fishery.
MS. WRIGHT said he was correct.
MR. SAXBY said as he reads the bill currently, the law would not
change as to non resident fishing licenses. He explained:
They are currently allowed to get a non resident
fishing or sport fishing license at the resident rate.
That does not entitle them to participate in
subsistence and personal use fisheries until they have
been here for 12 months. If you were to go along with
my suggestion, which is a very off-the-cuff suggestion
at this point.... but, qualify them as residents. Then
the concerns that were raised earlier would come into
play. They would be residents for both hunting and
fishing purposes and they would qualify for any
resident opportunity.
4:26:43 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS said as a testimonial, that this weekend Safari
Club International had its banquet in Anchorage and they had
four military members that all walked with some distinctive
limp; some had canes - because it didn't work out too well for
them in Iraq. He reminded them that some 50 soldiers went to
Iraq with the Airborne Brigade, but didn't come back.
SENATOR MCGUIRE said she holds the highest regard for the men
and women who serve our country and the debate they are having
today centers around how to do that. She supported honoring the
military and hosting them well; her only concern is about the
resident statute itself.
CHAIR HUGGINS said that was understood and he held SB 214 for
further work.
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